Your Best Hire Won't Look Good on Paper

Anita Chauhan (00:16)

Hi, and welcome to this week's edition of the Looks Good on Paper podcast. I'm reporting from sunny Spain. I was on vacation and I am back in action now, and I am so excited to have this week's guest. My guest today has led recruitment across some pretty different worlds: insurance, retail, construction, healthcare, leisure. But what ties it all together is the philosophy that hiring is never just about filling a seat.

Daen Fox is the talent acquisition leader who thinks about the whole picture — how teams are built, how people are brought in, and how they stay. I'm really excited to have you here today. Thank you so much for being here. How did you get here?

Daen Fox (01:08)

Who knows? But what an introduction. I'm Daen Fox. I've been in recruitment for a long time, but I've always seen myself as just Daen Fox, regardless of the job title. I think I got here by being a bit of a curious cat — wanting to learn, grow, grow other people, network, get myself out there. My career absolutely rocketed in the world of recruitment.

Anita Chauhan (01:56)

Right now you're working in HR more in the sense of connecting and working with people. Tell us a little about that and what's going on in the space right now.

Daen Fox (02:08)

The TA market is the worst it's ever been. Rather than committing permanently, I got to a space where I don't want to do just the BAU. I want to be able to go in and support businesses on a fractional basis and help take them to the next level. A lot of companies are so stuck in the mud, they need a fresh pair of eyes. I'm their guy.

Sometimes you can do things for next to nothing. Sometimes it's the most simple, most straightforward things — it's just unlocking the ways of thinking. I've got a master's degree in psychotherapy too, which definitely helps. I can really help break down everything and just make people comfortable.

Daen Fox (03:31)

It just means that I'm always calm, always relaxed, easygoing. And I've got a massive heart. Everything I do, I put my heart into it. I just want people to be inspired and love what they do. We're so blessed to be here and do what we do.

Anita Chauhan (03:55)

You know the drill — three questions, speed dating style with one wildcard. The first one: what is the biggest hiring mistake companies keep making even though it's clearly not working?

Daen Fox (04:03)

I was raised in a multinational family. Whenever someone says to me we need to hire for cultural fit, I hate it so much. What does that even mean? We're human beings in survival mode. We want to hire people that look like us, sound like us, feel like us — people we can relate to. But we're not at work to hire friends or people that are just going to think the same. We want people we can have some healthy, challenging debate with. That's where differences grow.

When you hire based on fit, the company is just going to stagnate. When you really put diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging into everything that you do — not just in recruitment, everything — those are the best companies. Everyone's happy, customers are happy, you make more money.

Daen Fox (05:19)

The companies that are doing really well are the ones happy to go back to the drawing board and look at everything from the basics — from the way they assess candidates, from the way they look at CVs, or even just meet the people. Really taking people in as a human being and looking outside the box.

One of the most successful teams I ever had was where I hired a whole TA team full of different people from different departments — because we had limited budgets — from marketing, finance, you name it. They've got the expertise in that field, so it takes one to know one. But equally they're coming with transferable skills, and then we all reverse mentored each other in different areas.

Anita Chauhan (07:21)

All right, so let's move on to number two. What's a hidden bias companies unknowingly have even when they think they're progressive in their hiring?

Daen Fox (07:30)

If companies have been doing things in the same way for a very long time, it's hard to break. Hidden bias is that everything's perfect, everything's fine — won't break something when it's fine. Until it's not fine. Until you're losing revenue. And then it's too late, the ship is going down. And you need to do something really radical. That's where a lot of companies either go completely bust or completely revamp their fortunes. There's no in between.

Open your eyes up to new ways of working. Go to networking events. I always actively encourage my teams to have twenty percent of their role in some sort of other project — a community forum, a bit of innovation, something to take their mind off the full day job but also gives them scope to progress on something else within the business.

If somebody is stuck in the same role for a long time, they're just going to coast. You don't want a whole team of people that want to coast. But you also can't have a whole team of people that want to take on the world. Balance is key.

Anita Chauhan (10:06)

Hold on to that thought — we have question number three coming. If you were to suddenly remove CVs from your current hiring process, what would that look like, Daen?

Daen Fox (10:13)

When you're hiring people and you're looking at a CV, not everyone's an absolute wordsmith. Not everyone knows how to put the right keywords in to be seen. It all comes down to how you assess. So what is right for your business? Is it an area for somebody to submit a video of themselves talking about a certain topic? Some sort of mini assessment prior to meeting you? Something engaging that gives you a real life experience of your business or company?

One of my favorite things I ever did — and it's not always possible post-COVID — was assessment centres where I would bring people along that passed those miniature assessments, and I wouldn't show the managers the CVs until afterwards. Because then they are hiring them based on what they're seeing on the day. The managers at first were like, we can't do this, we need to see their CV. And I said, trust me — interview these people, chat to them, assess them, and then at the end I'll show you their CV.

Not only did they get a way more diverse team, but equally they got some absolute stars that they admitted they would never have hired on paper. Unless you need a specific qualification — like a nurse or a doctor — we need to do more of that.

Daen Fox (14:04)

In a world where technology can take away a lot of the laborious manual tasks, we want to become more human. So how do you attract people? Your company has to become more human. Employer branding and EVPs are so key. A lot of companies ask: why would I spend fifty, a hundred grand on employer brand? What's the immediate return on investment? But this content you're producing is going to set the scene for the next five to ten years.

Some of the best things I ever did was take a really boring role — lawyers, finance people — and really humanize them. What do you do outside of work? I'd film someone in their shoe cupboard because they're a trainer collector. And then before you know it, they're talking about that shoe and saying, oh, and I do finance. Or I'm a lawyer. It's just about: I can see myself working with these people. This company lets you take your outside life into your work life and just be as fully you as possible.

I've got to a point in my career now where I can't work for a company where I have to pretend to be somebody I'm not.

Daen Fox (18:24)

If I was hiring for my own team right now? AI fluency. Wherever you use AI in your personal life — and how is this person surviving in a world where the market's so turbulent? Because if you're a survivor, you join my business, I can't wait to see what you do. You're going to fight.

Anita Chauhan (19:12)

Well, thank you so much, Daen, for joining me on Looks Good on Paper. It's been a lovely conversation and I'm excited to share this with the world.

Daen Fox (19:17)

Screaming magic.